Stem Cell Research

[Blood Red Bass]

I just wanted to see what the general consensus around here is on the use Stem Cell Research to help treat and largley, cure many chronic illnesses. Here in the U.S., Congress is about to vote on it but that motherfucking idiot in the white house says he will veto it if the bill manages to get to him. :mad: :flame: :behead: From the point of view of someone who could serisouly benefit from this, (me and my brother are both type 1 diabetic, that is the kind you get when you are young and has no method of prevention) I would do almost anything to get this embryonic stem cell research thing going. So if anyone has any opinions on it, or news of how other countries are dealing with the issue, I would like to hear about it.

[DeathCS]

I'm for it.

[low-tech]

america either allows the research here or simply allows europe the whole cake in what will be a revolution in medicine.

its that easy

[Blood Red Bass]

I would really like to see that happen. I am not an America-bashing person like lots of people on other forums are, but whatever country/province/continent furthers the research and starts to translate it into real-life help deserves all the money and praise they can get. I find it odd though, that such a money-hungry President like Bush would fail to see how much profit could be made from this. And on that, ( A very obvious,repeatedly proven) note, he is seriously one of the worst presidents we have ever had, he makes Americans look really, really......realllllly stupid.

[Transient]

anyone whos ever had the threat of paralysis supports stem cell research

[Blood Red Bass]

Yeah, i would have to say that nothing seems worse than paralysis. Just try to not move for two days and pay someone to feed you/help you shit...... :(

[DeathCS]

Fuck, haven't they cured rats of paralysis using stem cells? It seems pretty evident that this will work and I definitely see it as worth it.

[far_beyond_sane]

I just wanted to see what the general consensus around here is on the use Stem Cell Research to help treat and largley, cure many chronic illnesses. Here in the U.S., Congress is about to vote on it but that motherfucking idiot in the white house says he will veto it if the bill manages to get to him. :mad: :flame: :behead: From the point of view of someone who could serisouly benefit from this, (me and my brother are both type 1 diabetic, that is the kind you get when you are young and has no method of prevention) I would do almost anything to get this embryonic stem cell research thing going. So if anyone has any opinions on it, or news of how other countries are dealing with the issue, I would like to hear about it.

Well, this was the last thing I was expecting to see at the top of the chat queue this morning.

Stem cell research should be about as controversial as a nun's dirty joke. Embryonic stem cell research (using sweet, sweet baby meat) is a problem for the moral dickheads because it usually means you have do destroy an embryo (teh ab0rtionzz!) or clone an existing one (teh crazy scientisz wil go nutzzzz wif pow3r!11).

(What they don't mention is that at any normal IVF clinic, a woman has a ton of her genetic material frozen that can be used instead of just hurled away after the process works.)

If you thought the religious folks whined a lot about abortion and similar, then wait until you hear them on medical research. Medical ethics is difficult enough to cop to without morons and hippies clogging up the issue with their runaway morals.

Prediction: Your moral majority will continue to make this a hassle in the United States and other countries will obtain the technology, then the patents, then the ability (in that order) for stem cell therapies to begin. A new wave in medical research will begin, and you can thank your faggotty Evangelical soccer mums for not being able to ride it without emigrating.

Even so, when it comes to genetically determined diseases, you got comparatively lucky. Sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, you will probably get to throw away your insulin pen forever.

[CompelledToLacerate]

I just wanted to see what the general consensus around here is on the use Stem Cell Research to help treat and largley, cure many chronic illnesses. Here in the U.S., Congress is about to vote on it but that motherfucking idiot in the white house says he will veto it if the bill manages to get to him. :mad: :flame: :behead: From the point of view of someone who could serisouly benefit from this, (me and my brother are both type 1 diabetic, that is the kind you get when you are young and has no method of prevention) I would do almost anything to get this embryonic stem cell research thing going. So if anyone has any opinions on it, or news of how other countries are dealing with the issue, I would like to hear about it.
If both houses of congress support the bill allowing it enough, they can overule a veto. So if they really believe in it, George Bush's opinion doesn't mean shit. Just gotta hope.

I see nothing wrong with using aborted fetus's for stem cell research. The advances of medicine and human biology wouldn't have existed if we hadn't examined the human body, which back about hundreds of years ago was religiously forbidden thing. We examined it's form, how it works, how it can be fixed. An aborted fetus is no different. There's nothing immoral IMO about messing around with a dead fetus if it means benefitting the rest of humanity.

Some people need to just let go of old traditions and values that blind us from the truth; if you want something good, you may have to do something bad. Ironically, that's pretty much how the world works, so applying that logic to this wouldn't be all that different.

[Blood Red Bass]

For a presidential veto to be overridden and made into law, both the house and the senate need a 2/3 majority vote to make a vetoed bill into law. However, this does not apply if the president does a "pocket veto', in which he does not touch the bill in the 10 days he has to either sign it or veto it. Technically, a pocket veto is more powerful than a regular one. So if he pocket vetos it, there is really no chance. @ CompelledToLacerate, Star Wars KOTOR is probably the best Star Wars Game there is, :beer:

[CompelledToLacerate]

Goddamn US Government.

If I were in charge... Y'know, now's not the time for that rant.

Oh well. If the research is illegal here, it'll be legal somewhere else. I wouldn't care who made any achievements in that field. Just so some good comes out of it.

And yes. KOTOR is one of the best games EVER! Can't wait for the 3rd one.

[low-tech]

business conservatives are pissed

if the republican party has a weakness, its dividing the business tycoons from the ultra-religious. this potential veto is for the bible-belt voters and it comes a cost within the various conservative groups.

its the same with intellegent design, the implications of it may interfere with solid research and science at a higher acedemic level eventually if its allowed in public schools, the agenda is pushed for the benefit of the more numerous religious voters , alienating alot of conservatives who are involved in science and scientfic funding.

[philkilla]

Sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, you will probably get to throw away your insulin pen forever.

I thank my lucky stars that I don't have to deal with that, but what if from studying embryonic stem cells they happen to discover new ways to cure other terrible diseases...like lupus for example? I have a close female friend that is probably one of the sweetest girls I know with it...she has almost died from it a few times as well.

If the government would pull its head out of its ass, we (as a whole, and I mean the world) would be in a much better situation. Aside from the global economy, pollutions, obesity, so called illicit materials (i.e., marijuana) drugs and tobacco. The list goes on and on.

Those are a few of the terrible things about america that makes me very angry (aside from the military of course). It seems like the people that are here to help, never get heard. Either pushed or snuffed away.

The american culture is so full of itself it is disgusting.

I don't see how some research on aborted fetus' ( due to the purity of the tissue I am assuming ) is any more wrong or terrible than criminals that only see a few years for violent crimes for example.

[Blood Red Bass]

I forgot to mention how much money is in disease treatment. Imagine how much money would be lost from treating people with cancer if they could vaccinate everyone at an early age for specific kinds or eliminate the disease all together. All of my diabetic supplies alone cost over $2,225 a year and the same amount for my brother. That amount is very cheap compared how much kemotherapy and other medical suppiles/procedures cost.

[johnmansley]

I'm pro-life...

...for those who already exist, so bring on the stem cell research. It's unfathomable to me that some people consider a foetus to be a living human. To me a foetus is the potential to produce a human but nothing more. I'm surprised that some people aren't calling for ejaculation to be criminalised due to the mass murder of sperm that ensues.

Some people really do need to wake up and help in the furtherment of humanity rather than contributing to the suffering of others. They seem to be more worried about a human that hasn't even been born, due to their own religious agenda, than the pain endured by an actual living person. "A God I can't prove exists outside the minds of nutjobs who can't take responsibility for their own life [aside: if they do well it was down to God; if bad, the Devil. Instead of being proactive and actually doing something to overcome problems, they pray.] tells me not to kill anybody, even those not born yet!" Pathetic.

[ahumansdystopia]

I forgot to mention how much money is in disease treatment. Imagine how much money would be lost from treating people with cancer if they could vaccinate everyone at an early age for specific kinds or eliminate the disease all together. All of my diabetic supplies alone cost over $2,225 and the same amount for my brother. That amount is very cheap compared how much kemotherapy and other medical suppiles/procedures cost.

That is exactly why im sure we will never have a cure for cancer or aids I mean there is to much money being made off of it I really think aids was lab made and put out so more money could be made..........errr I will add to this later its late and the birthday boy is tired lol.

[fatdanny]

That is exactly why im sure we will never have a cure for cancer or aids I mean there is to much money being made off of it I really think aids was lab made and put out so more money could be made

I realise you are probably not being serious, but consider the amount of money going into cancer and HIV research. Surely the big evil pharmaceutical companies wouldn't be pumping cash into this if they had no desire to develop better treatment or even a cure.

The main thing that irritates me about all this is people's general fear of the "unnatural". If everything we did was natural we'd all still be sitting in a pile of our own shit throwing bones at each other. People who oppose scientific study on the grounds that it is unnatural invariably have little or no idea about what is actually going on.

[problematic]

I did a massive assignment on Stem Cell Research last year.

The catholic school I attend sure as fuck didn't like it, but if I hadn't gotten a band 6 I would have seriously been pissed.

Anyway, the American's are holding back massive stem cell line's aren't they? It really is fucking stupid. American's sometimes are very smart, but most of the time the decisions which govern the whole country are fucking stupid.

FBS, Did you hear about the Australian's who made the heart tissue in the laboratory beat and shit? Pretty amazing, but isn't the Australian news biasing the research progress? The rest of the world is way ahead of us, isn't it?

Anyway, give me spare organs, give me carefree massive risk taking, let me eat my fingers, and get me a second penis. I'm for Stem Cell Research!

[Amadeus]

Someone mentioned the issue of what's natural and not... explain to me how something can be both unnatural and exist in the universe. It's a contradiction of statements.
And long live the stem cells research; may it some day draw as much annual investment as one week of war.

[Blood Red Bass]

Someone mentioned the issue of what's natural and not... explain to me how something can be both unnatural and exist in the universe. It's a contradiction of statements.
And long live the stem cells research; may it some day draw as much annual investment as one week of war.

Hmm, i never thought of defining something natural that way, but now thanks to Amadeus that is how I am going to define it. Thanks for the enlightenment. :idea:

[far_beyond_sane]

FBS, Did you hear about the Australian's who made the heart tissue in the laboratory beat and shit? Pretty amazing, but isn't the Australian news biasing the research progress? The rest of the world is way ahead of us, isn't it?

We're not all hicks, you know. Our medical research lives large and kicks butt.

I'll see about that heart beating in the lab, I must have missed it at the time. Things like that always need some kind of perspective.

[fatdanny]

explain to me how something can be both unnatural and exist in the universe. It's a contradiction of statements.

Depends on the OED definition of natural.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to OED, but for now I'll go with, "existing in or produced by nature; not artificial or imitation."

I would say that acrylic is an unnatural substance, because acrylic is not produced in nature, it is an artificial product.

Growing organs in a lab does not constitute natural growth, which implies it is an artificial process. The reason being, this requires use of technology, which is not natural. Of course you could argue that technology is indirectly natural, since it is produced by humans who are natural. If you go down this road you get to the "everything is natural" situation. Now at this point the word 'natural' has no meaning, which is why I don't think this is a productive thing to argue. I don't think that 'natural' extends to man-made products for this reason.

Nothing wrong with these unnatural things of course, I'm all for it.

[DeathCS]

So whats more natural, a birds nest or a sky scaper?
In my opinion, they're both equally natural.
So the way I see it is anything that we do is natural. Stem cell research, cloning and or whatever is completely natural.
after all, humans are animals.

[Amadeus]

As stated - we follow the line of reasoning that anything humans do is a product of nature, hence natural - ergo, the word natural (normal you might throw in if you're feeling in the mood, which I dont) loses meaning.
It follows that there is no absolute scale for us to rely on when, just as an example, deciding wether or not stem cells research is good or not. It's all up to choices and yes, stomping about to someone elses drum is also a choice.

[low-tech]

up in boston they grow dicks,ears,noses,spare body parts galore. cant remember if its harvard or MIT that does it along with other types of research<maybe both>. so its already started in some places in the US. if they shut it down, all that talent is gonna move abroad

[Blood Red Bass]

Well it seems like everybody here is in favor of it, which is good to know. The only downside i could think of is a new population problem. Statistics say that by 2050, earth's population will be 9.3 billion and that does not take stem cell research and other like forms of regeneratative medicine. That would also take food, land, and energy consumption to a completely new level.

[Amadeus]

Oh wait, I know this one I know this one... let's say we all... hmmm... pull it out before eruption, or use preventives, or or or, just take a talk like "well honey, maybe two is enough"...
But, what do I know.

[L,B'XXX]

"Imagination is more important than intelligence" - Einstein

;)

[Blood Red Bass]

Just found out that the stem cell bill was 4 votes short of overriding the veto.....looks like its off to sweden for me.

[Amadeus]

Tripple-X, you horrible bully.

Yea, say what you like about Sweden, but for some reason it's a haven for genetical research. Research about nuclear energy has, in reality and never mind the rethorics, been banned by law for decades. Sort that one out.

[Infinity]

LEGALIZE IT!

you know what

[Infinity]

We should start thinking about pollution and crime. its already not safe to go out at night in alot of places and like cutting down trees pollut bla bla gonna kill the earth soon as far as i understand. i never looked much into anything like this but i thijnk these are more important to me atm.

[L,B'XXX]

Tripple-X, you horrible bully.

Yea, say what you like about Sweden, but for some reason it's a haven for genetical research. Research about nuclear energy has, in reality and never mind the rethorics, been banned by law for decades. Sort that one out.

I could have a field day with that. Is that why you live in the woods? :D

[Amadeus]

Yea, since we haven't been allowed to do any research regarding nuclear energies until about six months ago I believe, we're pretty much back to the basics. My attempts to cleave atoms with an axe has so far been unsuccesful, but I'm having high hopes for the chainsaw, using a bottle of water as cooling medium.

Infinity - one doesn't have to exclude the other. Let us all now take a moment to reflect on why, in reality, it does.

[Blood Red Bass]

I gotta stop keeping up with current events, I just keep getting more pissed. One of Bush's press secretaries said the short answer of why he will veto the bill is "He thinks murder is wrong." (unless you live in the middle east on top of millions of barrels of oil, then we can make murder a little more right.) I think im gonna go play a rendition of "slit your guts" for Mr. Bush.

[CompelledToLacerate]

George Bush is a fucking hypocrite. The biggest reason he and most of the Republican Party are against this is to appeal to the majority of Christians and all "pro-life" conservatives.

[Amadeus]

No, I don't believe he is actually. I saw a press conference with him and the German chancellor, Merkele. I'm afraid excuses like bad humour and hopeless speaker doesn't cut it anymore. Sorry guys, but the man called commanding the most powerful military of the world is an idiot. Simple as that.

[low-tech]

well, im sure this wont be the end of the issue in years to come

the religious right has pushed thier agenda so far it divides the conservative base. republicans used to be into small government,straight by the constitution,isolationist. politics right now is in the go around phase of the current ruling party burning alot of bridges with thier own similiar to clintons centralist neo-liberalism. a huge block of the far left seperated from clintons favor.

funny how now we are at an impass with the term "neo-". "its like post-"when describing music. look what happened to "new wave" there were no more "waves" after that, unless you count "no-wave" which is the dumbest term possible to describe music.

[johnmansley]

unless you count "no-wave" which is the dumbest term possible to describe music.

Dumbed-down surf music, perhaps?

[OpethFan]

George Bush is a fucking hypocrite.

Hes a puppet.

Faaaaar to fucking stupid to make his own desicions.

[problematic]

unless you count "no-wave" which is the dumbest term possible to describe music.

You're only saying that because you actually like shitty music like that.

Blood Red Bass - If growing population is a problem then please help the crisis by killing yourself.

No really, do it.

Pussy.

What i'm saying is that you can't stop it. The way I see it, all countries will be worse off, including America/Australia/European Countries, but since third world countries will be even worser off it's not too bad.

All that's gonna happen is alternative fuel sources will be found, food will be artificially enhanced allowing more people to eat for less crops, etc.

Basically everything will keep balancing itself out.

[Blood Red Bass]

Geeze problematic, slow down to a doom metal pace for a second. I wasn't neccessarily saying that i agreed with that problematic scenario nor was i saying i oppose stem cell research because of it. Nothing could make me do that. I was just proposing the only counter-argument that i would think worthy enough of consideration. Cause if science, coupled with cunlinary arts, has shown us anything it is that fetuses taste delicious whether they are scrambled, boiled, or served sunny side up. :)

[low-tech]

You're only saying that because you actually like shitty music like that.



im not even sure what it is, i like sonic youth tho.

all i know is libertarians and survivalist gun-worshippers,the "praise the lord and pass the ammunition" crowd are now "moderate-conservatives" and the black block/anarcho-homeless are actually "liberals".

politics is actually getting even more retarded than thought humanly possible. we gonna need to co-opt more already meaningless terminology to disguise the fact we have to fuck alot of people over for some resources and fuck each other on who foots the bill.