intelligent design

[andras]

anyone heard of this load of shit?

i say load of shit koz the peeps pushing for intelligent design attakk science without having any science to bakk up their arguements, and yet peeps are buying into this fundamentalist fad.

i myself am neither atheist nor religious, i accept others viewpoints and to me all religions and belief systems have some merit.
but replacing scientifik enquiry with faith is a little simple minded.

also, reasoning that some things are too complicated to have arisen "naturally" but was "designed" sounds like a good idea but as yet no clear cut evidence has been offered.
also, evolution is not 100% foolproof either, but to me seems the more accurate of the 2 systems. i am not denying that a designer cant exist or hasnt had some effect, but evolutions track record is far more solid, especially given the advances in genetics.

what concerns me most however, is the implication that god is the designer, yet it is cleverly not spelled out as such, which to me seems dishonest about the motivations of the peeps pushing for intelligent design, koz all of them are xtian fundamentalists or religious conservatists, or receive financial backing form religious organizations.

i can only hope that science as a whole, namely, the process of scientific enquiry makes it through unscathed, koz im thinking that if intelligent design gets a hold then theyll also throw out previous scientific discoveries on the grounds that it was misguided and contains errors according to "design" principles.
i can also see genetics going down the drain.

if youse know what im talking about, good, if not, read up on it.

anyways, thats my rant.

[SARS]

yet it is cleverly not spelled

:confused:

That's the only thing that made sense about that whole post, to an extent.

[The Execrator]

the
What the fuck does that mean??? :confused:

[low-tech]

intelligent design is just half assed dawinism, they accept evolution, believe in the modern timetable for the age of the earth,dinosours.etc. the contraversy on it is entirely about americas political divide...........it has nothing to do with science in terms of the upper eschelons of the proffession. it matters just as much as prayer in schools. and we are talking public schools here.

[andras]

low-tech:i find xtians to be annoying, koz theyll believe in anything as long as god is the explanation, and my only fear is that theyll make my kids think that too, when i want em to be able to come to their own conclusions as to how things work. that means having a wide knowledge base, not limited to some fukking comik book nor peeps speaking words koz it sounds good. this goes for all fundamentalism.

SARS: english isnt my first language, and jumping on peeps for mispelling is lame.

[SARS]

SARS: english isnt my first language, and jumping on peeps for mispelling is lame.

You're not wrong dude, but I am lame....so that's how it comes out.

[andras]

when i think of the word lame, 2 things come immediately to mind, a mule and three legged dogs.... :rolleyes:

[Amadeus]

Quite interesting to see such a reasoning on a metal forum. Not really surprising to me, but it feels like a good contrast to many popular beliefs...
Anyway, speaking of beliefs you have a damn good point, Andras. Intelligent design, creationists and so on all share the fundamental (no pun intended) wrong, that they are per definition unable to admit that someone else is right on the matter and, when given too much room, they tend to make that wrong downright oppressive.
Of course, not being able to admit that they are wrong goes for whole cadres of the scientific legion as well...

[brainsforbreakfast]

the point in fact is, that the evolution theory is still called a THEORY.
Altough it is in fact the most plausible reasoning, it has not been proved and verified, meaning scientificly it is still just a theory and not a law.
Most scientists agree on this.

While it is quite evident that "inteligent design" is being pushed by religious organisations, and most scientists refuse to acknoledge an unseen, unproven entity as "god", I.D. is just as plausible as evolution as long as neither has been proven.

[Amadeus]

True, true, though there do exist strong evidence for the evolution model, as proven by results from for example geology, palenthology and so on.
However, I believe that the point that Andras is getting is that whenever irefutable evidence of God's existence turn up, then science will eventually accept it as the new working model. Something that set it apart from many of the supporters of the Intelligent Design-model.

[far_beyond_sane]

i myself am neither atheist nor religious, i accept others viewpoints and to me all religions and belief systems have some merit.
but replacing scientifik enquiry with faith is a little simple minded.

A little simple-minded? Fukk me. Thatzz an undastatement.

koz im thinking that if intelligent design gets a hold then theyll also throw out previous scientific discoveries on the grounds that it was misguided and contains errors according to "design" principles.
i can also see genetics going down the drain.


Don't be fucking ridiculous.

*deep breath*

First of all, Intelligent Design is not a theory in the same way evolution is a theory. Please no-one call it a theory. A scientific theory has to fulfill a certain number of diagnostic criteria, and ID gets a big fat zero on many of them. It is not, for example, falsifiable; that is we have no way of proving it to be wrong. It is not reproducible - we cannot demonstrate its working principles (which are, of course, that Baby Jebus created everything in his spare time). And it takes a fat steaming shit in the face of Occam's Razor, by asserting something that is massively scientifically implausible - which is that all the laws of science that we understand conveniently took a hike while an invisible man created all being.

Intelligent Design is the biologial sciences equivalent of wedge politics, which is a nasty cynical little tactic. Here's how it works - take a divisive issue with two polar opposite views, such as abortion:

a) Human life begins at conception
b) Human life begins at birth/consciousness etc.

Now, say we're a right wing Christian fuckhat with a lot of money. To legitimise our debate, we start a 'think-tank' to present views on this issue which sit between the two views above, views which aren't outrageous but create a middle ground where none really exists. Perhaps by questioning our ability to determine the nature of consciousness or similar. Anything to muddy the distinction between the two issues, and to allow a conceptual connection to our outlandish view without actually ever promoting it.

ID is precisely this. Instead of saying flat-out "God created the world in six days, you fucking heathens" it says "We don't know for absolute certainty that evolution can be true" or perhaps "Certain facts about our world can't be explained by evolution". It is these statements which are so baldly fucking dumb

The ID movement is essentially run out of a privately funded thinktank called the Discovery Institute, who have a fat hard-on they wish to ram up the business end of Darwin's remaining cultural milieu. It is also an almost exclusively American phenomenon. No offence, but no other nation in the world is stupid enough (or as rabidly religious) to even bother debating this. Christians in most countries are quite happy with the theory of evolution - it doesn't automatically displace God, although it definitely does the job on Genesis, and only bothers the dickless loons in the far-right crowd.

Needless to say, these people are partially retarded medieval scum and need to be shot or sterilised. They have selected this issue carefully as a way of bringing God back into science.

Anyway. Flying Spahetti Monsterism is way funnier.

[low-tech]

this theory is for the average middle american voting for republicans because the republicans defend thier religion against the "loony liberals" trying to destroy this country. or thats how they see it and are told by conservatives,televangelists,rush limbawhs. america is back in the reagan era right now. this will not effect scientific research in america in the long run. stem cell research is an example of this sorta religious based outlawing of science. but this is causing alot of fallout because it pisses off alot of business conservatives here in america and we they lose an edge to european firms who are probably gonna make tons of $$$$ and do some amazing shit with it. it was a one time deal to appeal to the religious for the sake of an election. when this stuff interrupts business, hurts our own companies, people from all over the spectrum tend to notice. profit trumps all religious beliefs.

[brainsforbreakfast]

True, true, though there do exist strong evidence for the evolution model, as proven by results from for example geology, palenthology and so on.
However, I believe that the point that Andras is getting is that whenever irefutable evidence of God's existence turn up, then science will eventually accept it as the new working model. Something that set it apart from many of the supporters of the Intelligent Design-model.

there is strong evidence of a gradual changing of in biology, "evolution".
However, the common conception of what caused it, "natural selection", has not been proven.

@FBS, good points. I will cease to call "ID" just as plausible, since it has no scientific fundation.

[YJM04]

well at least its not saying that aliens brought us here

[low-tech]

many theories get hijacked then become a monstrosity of popular fiction or politicized to mean something other than science

1> a comet came and killed the dinosaurs. most likely a volcano

2>aliens built the pyramids in egypt. pointless history channel specials catered to pyramidiot wonder

3>the mayans worshipped aliens and detailed the timetable in which they will return, this coinsides with the end of the world, aliens also built the pyramids there in central and south america. more history channel ufo conspiracy

4>egyptian and the incas were in contact in the ancient era both simulatiously in contact with aliens. the pinnacle of retardation, the furthest fools will go to somehow explain that american natives and egyptians couldnt possibly have maintained civilizations far exceeding anyone else at the time

5>we havent found altantis yet. i think the furthest they went with this was the mycenean greeks

6>the egyptians were black<early egyptologist phonies made the claim they were white, the ruling elite of egypt that is>just like jesus being neither white nor black. the egyptians were semetic speaking arabs

intellegent design is the new, improved creation myth, updated to not exactly conflict that much with evolution

[Amadeus]

It's kind of sad, not to mention somewhat disturbing. Not least since the population of the bible belt of the world's most powerful military nation actually is such a LARGE population.

[fatdanny]

there is strong evidence of a gradual changing of in biology, "evolution".
However, the common conception of what caused it, "natural selection", has not been proven.

There's strong evidence for natural selection too. You can't prove things like this.

[johnmansley]

A little simple-minded? Fukk me. Thatzz an undastatement.



Don't be fucking ridiculous.

*deep breath*

First of all, Intelligent Design is not a theory in the same way evolution is a theory. Please no-one call it a theory. A scientific theory has to fulfill a certain number of diagnostic criteria, and ID gets a big fat zero on many of them. It is not, for example, falsifiable; that is we have no way of proving it to be wrong. It is not reproducible - we cannot demonstrate its working principles (which are, of course, that Baby Jebus created everything in his spare time). And it takes a fat steaming shit in the face of Occam's Razor, by asserting something that is massively scientifically implausible - which is that all the laws of science that we understand conveniently took a hike while an invisible man created all being.

Intelligent Design is the biologial sciences equivalent of wedge politics, which is a nasty cynical little tactic. Here's how it works - take a divisive issue with two polar opposite views, such as abortion:

a) Human life begins at conception
b) Human life begins at birth/consciousness etc.

Now, say we're a right wing Christian fuckhat with a lot of money. To legitimise our debate, we start a 'think-tank' to present views on this issue which sit between the two views above, views which aren't outrageous but create a middle ground where none really exists. Perhaps by questioning our ability to determine the nature of consciousness or similar. Anything to muddy the distinction between the two issues, and to allow a conceptual connection to our outlandish view without actually ever promoting it.

ID is precisely this. Instead of saying flat-out "God created the world in six days, you fucking heathens" it says "We don't know for absolute certainty that evolution can be true" or perhaps "Certain facts about our world can't be explained by evolution". It is these statements which are so baldly fucking dumb

The ID movement is essentially run out of a privately funded thinktank called the Discovery Institute, who have a fat hard-on they wish to ram up the business end of Darwin's remaining cultural milieu. It is also an almost exclusively American phenomenon. No offence, but no other nation in the world is stupid enough (or as rabidly religious) to even bother debating this. Christians in most countries are quite happy with the theory of evolution - it doesn't automatically displace God, although it definitely does the job on Genesis, and only bothers the dickless loons in the far-right crowd.

Needless to say, these people are partially retarded medieval scum and need to be shot or sterilised. They have selected this issue carefully as a way of bringing God back into science.

Anyway. Flying Spahetti Monsterism is way funnier.

This post was quite, quite brilliant. Unfortunately, our Creationist and Intelligent Design fiends would simply refute the whole post as they are clinically inable to argue in any way that would even remotely resemble scientific.

A lot of the spiel coming from Intelligent Design quarters is now supposedly backed up by "eminant" biologists. However, what they're neglecting to tell you is that these so-called biologists were Creationists who decided that gaining a PhD in a biological subject would somehow enhance their disgustingly unscientific credentials.

Intelligent Design is gaining popularity in the US with many states proposing that Intelligent Design be taught as well as Evolution. Some states have even preposterously proposed to remove Evolution from their school sylabusses competely to be replaced by Intelligent Design. Way to go - don't teach the kids the sensible option and they have no other course of action but to swallow the ridiculous one offered up in the pristine, golden chalis of Creationistic Christianity.

the point in fact is, that the evolution theory is still called a THEORY.

So is General Relativity, yet we can predict events that are happening millions of light years away with startling accuracy because of it.

So is Quantum Mechanics, yet this is the most succesful theory in the history of mankind. In fact, not one aspect of Quantum Mechanical theory has been disproved by empirical data.

The word 'Theory' in science is not used to describe an idea in the very formative years of it's existance. The fact that we will never know for certain whether our equations are correct - even if a Theory of Everything is found and no aspect of it refuted or disproved - means that we have to label our ideas as theories. It's a metaphysical argument. Afterall, what we are doing is merely fitting equations to patterns that we witness in nature. When a new pattern is found, we adjust our equations.

And that is the fundamental difference between science and Intelligent Design - in science, theories are constantly superceded by better, more accurate theories (Newtonian gravity to General Relativity for example) that help us edge closer to the truth of how we came to be. Intelligent Design? It's a bit of a step back from even the relatively forward-thinking (in comparison) Church, isn't it?

Do yourselves a favour and read up on Intelligent Design, especially if you haven't had a good laugh recently.

[brainsforbreakfast]

well, I do believe evolution is caused for the most part by natural selection.
If any "aliens" or "god" or "whatever" else had a stir in the pot,
i guess we could never know, but as FBS pointed out, Occams razor:

simplest explaination wins

[Transient]

lol nobody knows if there is a god or not. welcome to human life! get back to me when you die...then ill believe your opinion is relevant

[andras]

what i would like to see is ID and darwinism each being developed independently of each other. no probs with the latter, but ID needs some "science" behind it.

fritjof kapra draws alot of parallels between spirituality and science, whilst on the surface it would appear both are independent of each other he makes some plausible and sensible arguements that the both are really inseperable. but he could only arrive at this conclusion if both science and spirituality were developed independently and then merged.

this is something i would like to see further continuation of, because to me it seems a valid line of inquiry. however, notice how i was speaking of spirituality and not religion. to me, most fundamentalists seem to lack a concept of spirituality.

i suppose this may seem somewhat alchemical in nature, and to a certain point it is, for it was the old fathers of alchemy that experimented not only with their minds but with the elements of the world around them. they not only tried to merge elements but also tried to divide and isolate. and from this we had advances in chemistry, psychology and philosophy in a time when these fields did not exist. i should say at the time when religious apes were the law.

as for the peeps thinking ID is an amerikan phenomon had better think again, koz australias conservative government isnt adverse to introducing ID beside evolution in the classrooms. the education minister has already mentioned this several times of late.

at school, my opinion is that matters of religion and matters of science ought to be taught seperately. if peeps want to make a connection, then thats fine, just keep the fukkin things seperate.

[far_beyond_sane]

Don't you have a c key, kunt?

as for the peeps thinking ID is an amerikan phenomon had better think again, koz australias conservative government isnt adverse to introducing ID beside evolution in the classrooms. the education minister has already mentioned this several times of late.

I understand your concern. But it won't happen, thank fuck.

Those were political remarks, which sum to "I have no intention of pissing off any special interest group whatsoever, so I'll offer very bland support for this position which I quite frankly could not give one tenth of one shit about." Hot air. Nothing more. To actually formally put this ID crap into the school syllabus would be anything except pragmatic - very little gain for a whole lot of electoral pissed-offed-ness.

This isn't Kansas, Toto. Aren't we lucky?

[Zionist]

i can also see genetics going down the drain.
Bwahaha!!! :rofl:

Too funny.

[Transient]

SARS: english isnt my first language, and jumping on peeps for mispelling is lame.

dude you live in australia

[OpethFan]

[QUOTE=far_beyond_sane]Don't you have a c key, kunt?QUOTE]

:rofl:

People should just shut the fukk up and stop making up bullshit and theories - espekially about the afterlife. Because that is exactly all we know, theories, someone elses idea. Everything we know kould be totally wrong, about everything. We just know it because the person who diskovered it, their theory makes most sense. Doesnt make it right.

Edit: heh i did a foxguitar

[Infinity]

SADISTIK EXEKUTION!!!!!

[brainsforbreakfast]

SLAYUUUUUHR!!!

[Infinity]

:rolleyes: Sad-X actually spell their name with K's though LIEK OMG :eek:

[humancorpse]

This thread got to long post for me. meh

[dark usurper]

dude you live in australia
maybe he is an aboriginal

[Infinity]

Aboriginals first language is english for about 90% no exaggeratoin. The amount of tribal Abbo's is very few now. Plus, maybe he A)Moved to Australia or B) Was raised by, lives or lived in an ethnic or foreign community.

[dark usurper]

Ok, I wasnt aware of that.
Yes, that seem reasonable then...

[Infinity]

Well, it's more than likely the answer. I've never seen an aboriginal listen to metal :D [thats true.]

[dark usurper]

hehe.... Or maybe this guy just knew that this place was the best to discuss such a topic because metalheads are the most delightful and intelligent people on earth :D

[YJM04]

what about budism?

[L,B'XXX]

His "k" usage wasn't consistent. Pay attention.

I've stayed out of this conversation and just read because I'd never heard about it before.

OpethFan-- you're bad! :)

[andras]

Zionist: i now understand why you found that hilarious. ive been researching (talking to a friend who works in the genetics dept at a hospital) she pointed me in the right direction. the evidence that cells, RNA, DNA and so on being linked to different bacteria, peeps, viruses and so on and the way that they grow and propagate to me seems like evidence of evolution is almost beyond doubt. i kinda feel dumb for saying that. i still find religious types to be annoying.

far-beyond-sane: i hope your right, and given the recent track record of education in oz, the only thing that may happen is that funding for the new textbooks will be reallocated to something more pressing- like rebuilding skools burnt down during scool holidays.

transient: i live in sydney, orstrailya (as we pronounce it).

OpethFan: theories, if proven correct become scientifik law. eg. conservation of energy, forces, molecular bonds and such. eg. gravity applying on an apple as it falls to the ground, or atoms connecting with certain atoms to make specific molecules. and so on.

dark usurper: im not a fukken abo and i only posted here koz it was convenient, and i wasnt expecting much of a response koz i was having a rant. however, i do appreciate input (usually intelligent ones, no pun inteded) from everyone.

Infinity: i do okkasionaly mispell words and i do replace c's with k's, either cause i fukk up my thoughts (not hard), or im doing it to fukk up the english language as much as Sad X have fukked up music. \m/SAD X\m/
i was raised overseas, namely europe, ie. hungaria, germany, austria, croatia, romania, russia, and briefly india.
i dont speak them languages anymore, even though i was fluent in them as a child. so now im fukked with english.

L,B'XXX: good eyes, the mispellings are inconsistent.

[far_beyond_sane]

Today's post is brought to you by the word "twat" and the letter C!

[The Execrator]

:The Execrator arives and narrates his life:

EDIT: This thread is too boring to narrate my thoughts so nevermind...

[brainsforbreakfast]

CUNT is spelled with a C.....































































CUNT!

[Infinity]

Sadistik Exekution is death, fukk you all, die die die!!!!! Check out my tab of Fukking Death Mental \m/

[L,B'XXX]

CUNT is spelled with a C.....































































CUNT!

"...Doctor C., you infernal shitstain..."

:)

[Amon rA]

Flying Spahetti Monsterism

we come from his noodly appendage (http://www.venganza.org/)

[low-tech]

that shit rules

[L,B'XXX]

hilarious! WWFSMD?

[brainsforbreakfast]

we come from his noodly appendage (http://www.venganza.org/)

haha omg! :rofl: Thats shit is most definitly from some wicked Discordian :)

[L,B'XXX]

You won't believe this. I got a hangup call at 4:20am. Yeah, Denny said maybe it was one of our old party friends, but I *69-ed it to make sure it wasn't mom with an emergency. The number was unavailable so I went back to sleep. I didn't remember any of the dreams I'd had til something on the news triggered a memory. I'd answered the phone and it was someone from the fsm calling to ask if I would purchase a t-shirt for their cause and wanting to do a survey. Denny kept asking who I was talking to and I was trying to answer the caller while he was looking at me very puzzled from my responses. Then the dream shifted.

holy crap. That was weird. And it seemed it only lasted a minute.

[Amadeus]

RIGHT - that Flying Pasta Monstrosity theory must be the best piece of sarcasm I've read in a long time. Is it really true that he sent it to all those school boards? I pray (in the spirit of the thread) to
everything-etheral-that-has-yet-to-be-conclusively-disproven-thingy
that it is. My everything-etheral-that-has-yet-to-be-conclusively-disproven-thingy
do those phoneys who advocate the ID-model as the sole model deserve it.

[newHELLonEARTH]

Today's post is brought to you by the word "twat" and the letter C!
:rofl: haha my whole week in school has been yelling TWAT!

[Zertonshfits]

i dont give a flying fuck about the past, its the now im worrying about.

people say "where did we come from? how did we get here?" who cares? were here now, lets get shit done already! :beer:

[far_beyond_sane]

This horrendous pap has made it to Australia. "Pacific Hills Christian School" (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/intelligent-design-not-science-experts/2005/10/20/1129775902661.html) is Australian for "gruyere-flavoured rectal douche fiends".

[fatdanny]

I just got the new edition of New Scientist. These an article on the court battle over what US schoolchildren should be taught. Two bits in particular tickled me:

In conversation, other pro-ID school board members adopt a more measured tone. Pentacostal minister Ed Rowland, for example, insists ID is science, although he admits he doesn't understand it. How does he know? "Well, it sounds like science doesn't it?"

And...

The National Academy of Sciences says it [a theory] is, "A well-substantiated explaination of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences and tested hypotheses".
In court Behe [pro-ID] accepted that ID fails to pass muster, but argued that in practice scientists use the word more broadly. He offered an alternative: "A scientific theory is a proposed explaination which points to physical data and logical inferences"
Rothschild [pro-evolution] saw his opportunity to move into the kill, "But you are clear, under you definition, the definition that sweeps in intelligent design, astrology is also a scientific theory, correct?"
"Yes, that's correct." Behe said, as the court erupted in laughter.

[johnmansley]

That's gold, sheer comedy gold. You couldn't write that shit if you sat down with Ricky Gervais for an afternoon of tea, biscuits and comedy brainstorming.